Sunday, September 16, 2007

Samuel, Saul, and the Sorcerer: Part 2

Here is Part 2 of my debate with "PoLemiCs" on Sheol/Hades in 1 Sam 28. Also see Part 1.
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Despite what Neb has stated we believe that Sheol can be interpreted as the grave, who cares how the JW or whoever abuses it.
Ricky [another name for "PoLemiCs"], your interpretation is completely foreign to what the Jews meant when they actually used the word. Honestly, I feel like you are insisting that references to Sheol and Hades must refer to "the grave" b/c you see this as the "reformed position" and so you're simply unwilling to consider anything else. BC is reformed, is he not? He believes in the reality of Sheol/Hades. That should make you pause and at least consider what I am saying.
Ok. so where is it?
I've already told you that it was commonly believed that the abode of the dead was deep in the Earth. Also, why does it matter where it is?
LOL, com'on now bro you really got that from what I posted? Of course it closed the gates of heave only to be entered by those saved by Faith Alone which our OT brothers were but that a totally different thread.
There was simply no salvation for any man, no matter how faithful, until Jesus died on the cross, resurrected, and ascended to the Father. You believe that, right? Well then it follows from this that those who died before the time of Christ could not enter heaven as we know it until the Son's work was done.
Says who? Abrahams Bossom is Heaven in contrast to the rich man being in Hell/Hades (Luke 16:19-31)
You have to research the development in Jewish thought on the afterlife. By the time of Christ, the Jews believed that, while all souls good and bad go to Sheol, their lot there is not the same. The righteous rested in the bosom of Abraham and the wicked were tortured as the rich man was. [Both the bosom and the torture are in Sheol]

Also, we know that Jesus' parable does not speak of heaven and hell b/c there was communication between the souls in the two places. This simply cannot take place between the residents of heaven and hell b/c hell is a place of complete and total separation from the Body of Christ and from the Presence of God, which the souls in heaven constantly behold. Thus, it must speak of Sheol/Hades, the place where all souls go but do not all have the same experience. This makes perfect sense, considering that Jesus was preaching to the Jews and the belief in Sheol/Hades was very prevalent at that time.
Actually this [Samuel's words in 1 Sam 28:16-19] was already spoken to Saul by Samuel previously before he died (1 Samuel 15:28).
So what? Saul obviously needed reminding, or he would not have bothered to consult the sorcerer.

Pax Christi,
phatcatholic

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