Tuesday, July 24, 2012

On the Morality of Homosexual Acts: Part 3

Harriet responded to Part 2 in the comments section of that post, but I've been on vacation the last two weeks so I haven't been able to respond to her until now. Also see Part 1. Her words will be indented and italicized.
Thank you very much for answering my questions. I have learnt so much more about Catholisism by reading this blog than any lesson at school (they are good lessons, but only cover the basic 'Christians believe in this' and 'Muslims believe in that').
I'm glad I could help.
I still believe that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, but hey, that is my own opinion.

I just wanted to explain some of my posts and opinion as I think I am coming off in the wrong way. Somebody commented that I was arrogant, egotistical and disrespectful and I am sorry if I am coming across like that - I just wanted to understand Catholic beliefs and explain my own.
I think the "arrogant, egotistical, and disrespectful" comment that someone left in the comments section of Part 1 was actually directed towards me since I apparently "sit in judgment on God's behalf." Whatever. I take words like that with a grain of salt. At any rate, as far as I'm concerned, I don't think you're coming across that way at all.
I think there is no physical thing that makes people gay because I believe that homosexuality originates in the soul and as God made everyone's soul then He made them gay, and therefore approves. However, this is just my own opinion.
Like I've been saying, even if God does make a person so that he is attracted to the same sex, that doesn't necessarily mean that God approves of that person's decision to act on that sexual orientation. We've seen from the bible that He obviously does not. But people with a same-sex attraction ("SSA") are not alone here. Our human nature, the way we were made, cries out for us to do a number of things. That doesn't mean we should do them. Our nature is fallen -- even though God made it -- and we often have to resist it's various demands. We are all -- homosexual and heterosexual alike -- called to achieve mastery over our fleshly desires. By the grace of God, this is possible.
Thank you for providing the Scripture passages - I hadn't seen them before and they were very interesting to read.
Please read over them and let me know if you still think God condones homosexual behavior.
As for your next point... I do believe that temptations should be resisted, however I personally believe that homosexuality is not wrong and therefore not a temptation.
I see. But, you have yet to really prove that homosexual behavior is acceptable to God.
I'm not completely sure what you mean by 'free reign to act out of that orientation'. Could you please elabourate?
Some people seem to think that the Church is placing all of these restrictions on persons with SSA but allowing heterosexual persons to do as they please. Additionally, advocates of homosexuality demand that persons with SSA be allowed free-reign to have sex with whoever whenever they please. My point is that all persons are called to properly order their sexual lives. This call is not just for persons with SSA. It is true that chastity means different things for different people, depending on their vocation in life and their sexual orientation. But, let's not pretend that only persons with SSA are called to make sacrifices or to resist the human nature that God gave them. Persons with a heterosexual orientation are called to do that too.
Personally, I also disagree on choosing to love someone. I certainly didn't choose to love the person I do and if I had any choice in the matter I would fall out of love with him. He is, well, making me very unhappy and our friendship is completely ruined. But anyway, that's off topic.
You're right, this probably isn't the place to get into whether or not love is a choice.
One the point on marriage and chastity, I think that everyone should be able to marry the one they love, regardless of gender, which is why I support homosexual marriage.
What if I love my sister, or my pet hippopotamus, or my mother, or someone else's husband or wife? Should I be allowed to marry them for the simple fact that I love them? Of course not. The fact is, love is not the only prerequisite for marriage, and we wander down a slippery slope when we say that it is.
On animal and human comparisons, I was just trying to think of an example where God has shown us of how He may have tried to show us a message. Again, my own opinion.
I understand what you were trying to do there, I just don't think it's very convincing (for the reasons I've already stated).
When I have a break from school exams I'll find a copy of the Bible and read it.
Please do! I think that would aid our discussion immensely.
I guess then that I am now deemed a sinner because I actively support homosexuality: I have voted in my country's (The UK) survey on legalising homosexual marriage.
Well, you are certainly not the only one, although I'm not sure that should be any consolation. I really do believe that souls are at stake here. I'm glad that you are asking the difficult questions and seeking to understand the alternative point of view.

Pax Christi,
phatcatholic

7 comments:

Grundy said...

Any idea why God made homosexuality immoral? Does the Bible provide any reason or is it completely arbitrary?

Nicholas Hardesty said...

The homosexual sex act is immoral because sex is supposed to be unitive and procreative. We see this in Adam's words and God's command to Adam and Eve before the Fall. Homosexual sex acts can't achieve those ends, thus they are immoral.

Grundy said...

So any sex between an infertile heterosexual couple is also immoral?

happilyengaged said...

Very good question. The thing with a infertile heterosexual couple is that although they are infertile, the couple can potentially have a baby. Be it by a miracle, a cure, a change in either of the spouses physiology- when the couple has sex there is a potential for procreation (we all know of people who were told they could never have babies, and surprise! the wife's pregnant, don't we?). That is why sex between an infertile couple is not immoral.
In regards to the homosexual couple, there is no way that a sperm and a sperm can join to create life. There is no way things can change between a man and a man (or a woman and a woman) having sex that would permit them to conceive.

Grundy said...

Surely you accept that there are couples with literally no chance of becoming pregnant. What then?

Kirk said...

I have been reading this and the biggest flaw is her assumption that love either be it heterosexual or homosexual comes from the soul. Now love of another may but the act if sex does not, which she and most people put together as one. If the sexual act did come from the soul and God approved then why do ALL people feel an inner guilt after the sinful act. This happens not only to homosexuals but also to heterosexuals sexual acts outside of marriage, not open to life. The desire to have sex comes from the body and this world not from our soul which is made for love but that love is realy only made for loving God. That is also why a true love for a fellow human is only real when it is a self sacraficing or giving love. When sex comes into the mix for pleasure and not for life then it is a selfish act and can not be associated to love.

Justin Cartwright said...

Your arrogance is astonishing. People like you, mouthing moldy Bible passages instead of exhibiting compassion and respect for differences between people, condemned thousands of innocent civilians who were raped, robbed, and slaughtered during the Crusades, the Inquisition and the Salem witch trials, just to name a few examples of the atrocities committed in the name of your religion.

Most interesting is the fact that Catholics have frequently attacked those who also consider themselves "Bible Believers". From 1200 to 1500, the long series of Papal ordinances known as the Inquisition, ever increasing in severity and cruelty, ran on without a break. In a rigidly consistent system of legislation: every Pope confirmed and improved upon the atrocities of his predecessor. All directed toward one end – completely uprooting and destroying anyone with a different perception of the world and of life.

Serenely condemning innocent people from the safety of your blog, you exhibit an incomprehensible blindness to the obvious fact that the such behavior contradicts the simplest principles of Christian justice and love toward one's neighbor. Your condemnations are rejected with horror by anyone with the least bit of human compassion or understanding of human history.

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